Forum:Soviets Arsenal
The list of stuff of the Soviets in mod Red Alert: Zero. Since Premier Yuri assumed control over the Soviet Union and founded the Greater USSR, the army structure has changed substantially, and the technology has improved at an alarming rate. Notable improvements include the advanced use of biotechnology and cybernetics, psychic technology, newer high altitude models of flak technology, and the perfection of nuclear and Tesla research. Soviet forces are more assault-geared, and designed to charge enemy lines to break them apart, using a combination of cheap expendable units, and protected assault units. Content Infantry Conscript *Full Designation: Conscript *Role: General infantry *Cost: 100 *Strong against: Infantry *Weak against: Vehicles, aircraft *Abilities: Clear garrison (grenades) *Secondary Ability: Switch Molotov Cocktail/Assault Rifle - Molotov cocktails deals damage to infantry (with a small chance of igniting them) and against garrisons, assault rifle is standard weapon against infantry *Heroic Upgrade: Bravery - Increases an armour protection and slightly damage of nearby friendly Corscripts *Primary Weaponry: AK-47 *Secondary Weaponry: Molotov cocktails Hazza-the-Fox 01:19, November 4, 2011 (UTC) The Conscript is for most intents identical to the RA2 version. Foregoing proper armor, training and abilities to cut costs, conscripts are cheaper than Marines. Armed with AK-47s they can damage to all targets (especially infantry), and fire from ranges far further than any infantry SMGs or pistols, but not as far as a Marine's XM8. Special abilities I'm not sure of. I don't think red-guard bayonet charge would be extremely necessary- if anything its a little redundant, to say the least (besides, that's what the attack dogs, terror-drones and pariahs are for). A single-shot grenade-launcher to help against tanks (like the Marines could possibly get) might prove a little overpowering when every conscript fires a grenade at once- although switching to hand-grenade mode, requiring the conscript to charge ahead a bit more, lob a grenade and clear out enemy infantry might be a little more balanced- though the whole conscript army could still wipe out any opposition by just charging at once). The only solution left is some kind of buff- like Starcraft-Marine stimpacks at the cost of a bit of health? VolteMetalic 11:10, November 4, 2011 (UTC): I agree with him, he is in good balance with Marine :) I agree, the Secondary ability is very hard to solve. In RA3 they had Molotov Cocktails against garrisoned infantry (which remidns em, Soviets dont ahs any low-tier anti-garrison unit) and Peacekeepers with Riot Shields. And Heroic. What you wrote is the basic thing of heroic :D There are few options for it. Better weapon (cliche, but not a problem), a means to boost the morale of others nearby (as they are "heroes of the Union"), or that the "heroes" are more equipped, with first aid kits so they can heal others enarby (they heal themselves already as heroics). Hazza-the-Fox 13:59, November 5, 2011 (UTC) I like the idea of morale boost- by the way some troll found the wiki and vandalized the page; we may want to reconsider the site as a discussion board. I banned him for a year, and will get around to restoring the page to it previous form. VolteMetalic 19:14, November 5, 2011 (UTC): Yes, but how will it work, the morale boost? That bastard... he is a big coward. Good work, but year is not enough, make it 9999 next time :P Hazza-the-Fox 03:48, November 7, 2011 (UTC)Yep, sadly a year was the maximum time- mainly I figured it would make sure he wouldn't be bugging anyone else on this wiki (or others if admin authority declares general Wikia access). Morale boost- I dunno, maybe a horde-bonus aura around the elite-level conscripts? VolteMetalic 08:14, November 7, 2011 (UTC): No, I meant the gameplay effects which will the morale boost do :P And we still dont has the Secondary ability for him. Hazza-the-Fox 11:28, November 7, 2011 (UTC) I guess some kind of armor enhancement for nearby friendly conscripts? I dunno really. Secondary ability I think Molotovs (toggle molotov-throwing mode?) are probably a good call; a drastic close-range attack seems like a good way to put pressure on. VolteMetalic 13:26, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Yes, tha might work. Lore-wise, the "heroes of the Union" Conscripts inspire others for bravery, giving them a bonus to armor (they resist and ignore the injury). Ok, so Molotov's. I hope people will dont call it a RA3 copy, but there is really no better way for them :) Also, they might have a chance (cca 25%) to ignite the infantry, making them a "human torch" and possibly able to ignite other infantry around, lasts for 5 seconds. Hazza-the-Fox 20:45, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Sounds good; Yep, I thought about it but there is simply nothing else more appropriate; and agree with igniting the target and risking ignition (or doing a lot of damage) to splash-radius enemies) VolteMetalic 22:08, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Ok, and can it also increase a damage dealed by friendly infantry nearby, or only specifically of Conscripts (and maybe Flak Troopers)? And the "morale", will it also affect only thes two, or all infantry, or all units (friendly, nearby)? Hazza-the-Fox 01:13, November 8, 2011 (UTC) I think so- but mainly enhancing the armor (as it helps preserve them, as opposed to making them extremely deadly- which I think might come in most useful for having them draw fire and take it). Clear garrison could be a good idea- though it may make them too strong for their price (especiallly as Marines have to actually run into the building itself); I think in their case severe damage to buildings is probably the way to go. And I think the best way to handle the enhancement buff is probably to keep it amongst the conscripts alone VolteMetalic 08:40, November 8, 2011 (UTC): It is possible to make that you will need more Molotovs to kill one soldier than Marines needs, as Molotovs dont make that great splash inside houses, where might be more windows to throw them into :P So, the "Bravery" heroic will affect only Conscripts, and will it increase their protection, and their damage/attack? Hazza-the-Fox 12:02, November 8, 2011 (UTC)Are you saying that it is possible to make it so that every time a Conscript throws a molotov into a structure, it kills one of the marines inside? And yes- affects only other conscripts, and mostly enhances their protection, and slightly enhances their damage. VolteMetalic 18:35, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Sure, it is possible, but also the opposite, that you will need for example 4 grenades to take down 1 infantry. Ok, so Conscript is sorted out, only the Molotov's strength :) Hazza-the-Fox 01:04, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Agreed! VolteMetalic 09:08, November 9, 2011 (UTC): So Conscipt is set? Pariah *Full Designation: "Pariah" Mind-Controlled Retribution Agent *Role: Suicide bomber *Cost: 400-500 *Strong against: Infantry groups, structures, vehicles *Weak against: Long-range anti-infantry support, aircraft *Abilities: Clear garrison (rushing the structure, suicide, severly damages structure) *Secondary Ability: Forced Self-Destruct - Pariah explodes immediately *Heroic Upgrade: Toxic Waste Supply - Creates an toxic area after detonation *Primary Weaponry: Explosive Vest *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 11:43, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Nothing fancy here; basically a suicide bomber (formerly an enemy of the state/ enemy nation combatant/ nationalists and terrorist who had crude automated mind-control devices and computers implanted- and takes orders via radio signals from a control room without the need of an actual psychic controller). Function-wise, the Pariah is like the RA2 terrorist, GLA suicide Bomber, or Ordos Sabateur. He runs, and he explodes when either colliding with his target, killed by enemy fire, or when specifically instructed by the enemy. His explosion kills all nearby infantry (or greatly damages nearby heavy infantry), can do fair damage if they managed to directly hit a vehicle, and of course do extreme damage to structures. Possibly (maybe via upgrade if its too extreme at first) they can enter garrisoned structures, explode, and kill everyone inside while bringing the building into the red health levels (firery, but salvagable). Swimming is another possible upgrade. Their main downside is that they are quite weak and easily killed, and are mostly useful as decoys. They are much slower than dogs, but faster than other infantry. They are a friendly-fire risk; they will do the same damage to friendly infantry as they would to enemy infantry- except friendly Pariahs; who will take reduced damage from their fellow's explosions (or otherwise killing one would kill the group instantly- setting off a chain reaction). I think the only things I can think of right now to consider would be if certain attacks averted the self-destruct (attack dogs being a noteworthy candidate). Aside from that is the price; 200 is probably much too low for a mainstream suicide unit- though it should be used as something fairly expendable- 600 is probably pushing too much, for this reason. He also needs to be differentiated from dogs, Terror Drones and Tesla Troopers- who are also close-range units that players would be fending away). VolteMetalic 13:26, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Ok, I agree with this all. The cost would be 500 than, and maybe the Heroic (yes) might be addition of toxic waste, infecting the area round himself. Even that by normal means it will be impossible to have heroic Pariah, in some cases (like taking an Promotion Boxes, or capturing "Academy" strucutre, which gives to all units a promotion, wit 2 all units starts as heroic) it is possible. Hazza-the-Fox 20:54, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Sounds good! Definitely 500 (maybe 400 depending on armor?), and promo-boxes and tech-stealing promotions is a good point- toxic waste is definitely a good addition. Vehicles Terror Drone *Full Designation: *Role: *Cost: *Strong against: *Weak against: *Abilities: Amphibious *Secondary Ability: *Heroic Upgrade: *Primary Weaponry: *Secondary Weaponry: VolteMetalic 09:08, November 9, 2011 (UTC): The only thing I add here is that it is amphibious like RA3 equivalent. Flak Raider *Full Designation: BTR-160 Flak Raider *Role: Light APC, anti-aicraft vehicle *Cost: 800 *Strong against: Aircrafts, light vehicles *Weak against: Tanks, anti-armour *Secondary Ability: Disembark Passenger - Max. 6 infantry *Heroic Upgrade: Toxic Shells - Flak gun makes toxic clouds, which damages any aircraft (friend or foe) which flies through it *Primary Weaponry: 50mm high-altitude flak gun *Secondary Weaponry: Flak Side Launcher Hazza-the-Fox 00:29, September 2, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox The Flak Raider fills a nearly identical role to the RA2 Flak Track- with the only difference is it can hold another passanger, and it possesses better supressive-fire capabilities against ground targets. Its weapons are light, but equally effective against all targets. Engineers are still weighing up whether the primary armament should be a light-caliber Flak machinegun platform, or a mid-range artillery flak gun, with added side launchers for shooting botched flak shells at ground targets. VolteMetalic 09:21, September 2, 2011 (UTC): I would go with 50mm flak gun. And Heroic Upgrade would be bigger gun, like 57mm. Or some kind of new ammunition, which ignites in the air, or has some toxic waste, or magnetic-typed... no, that would negate the splash damage unless the enemy aircraft were flying VERY close to each other. Something in this sense. It doesnt have to be just additional weapon, but pgrade of previous, aditional equipment like speakers to inspire men etc. Hazza-the-Fox 02:44, September 3, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Hmm, that could be good- you know, we could actually also have the Flak Track itself a minor artillery unit (which would be a good opportunity to implement the 'shrapnel shower' attack (only on a smaller scale). Either that, or the grenade launchers become an uncontrollable auto-weapon that gets attached to the vehicle, and sprays out smokescreens or actual flak puffs at nearby units, without affecting the main gun (which could be a light long-range shelling unit). I think your idea of toxic/irradiated (uranium) flak shells are a good idea- leaving a cloud of toxins that can wash around and linger about, and damage more aircraft as they fly past? There are a lot of options. VolteMetalic 08:08, September 3, 2011 (UTC): No, that would be too much for it :D But the shrapnel spray would be normally used against infantry, with an effect of "black cloud" :) Yes, thats fine. The grenade launcher will be uncontrollable weapon with 360° radius and minimal fire range so it works only against nearby enemy units. Or you meant it as part of "Dissembark Passengers"? Yes, thats what I meant, that the explosion leaves some toxic cloud in the air, and when any aircraft (friend or foe) fly through it it will start corroding it, but not into that big extend. Hazza-the-Fox 08:54, September 4, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Fair enough- and I meant that the grenade launcher automatically keeps firing if there are any enemy units nearby. It is very inaccurate, but just offers some random cover fire. Mauler Tank *Full Designation: T-68 Mauler Tank *Role: Main battle tank *Cost: 1600 *Strong against: Vehicles, structures *Weak against: Aircraft *Secondary Ability: Smokescreen - Covers Mauler in fog, creating a fake targets for enemy *Heroic Upgrade: Roof-mounted AA Machine Gun - Places a .50 caliber machine gun on the roof, against infantry and aerial argets *Primary Weaponry: 120mm gun (robotically-autoloaded shells) *Secondary Weaponry: .50 cal. coaxial machine gun VolteMetalic 11:40, August 30, 2011 (UTC): We should discuss here about what should be its Secondary Ability :P Hazza-the-Fox 14:33, August 30, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Indeed! This will be a tricky issue, as I'm not really sure what would compliment it. Actually- now that I think of it, a really good idea that would encourage people to try to use this beast in close-quarters is to give it a smokescreen- it puffs out a cloud of smoke from the tank (the smoke will be at the feet of the units, so the player can still see them)- but it will reduce the attack of all enemy units caught in the cloud (possibly even the range)? It even has the benefit of a function that real-world tanks use (in some sense)! VolteMetalic 14:41, August 30, 2011 (UTC): Hmm... smokecreen can work like this, even reducing fire range, but it would envelop the tank, when you will have it selected, you will still see their silhouette, when youe enemy uses it, the better! It will more encourage players to use it :D The other possibility is that it will create "fake enemy targets" (game wise it will be the smoke clouds), on which enemy units will attack while yours will be hidden among the clouds and fire from there, or when retreating as a great distraction. Hazza-the-Fox 15:13, August 30, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox So you are suggesting that the 'smoke' objects themselves will draw enemy fire? That could work too... A lot of possibilities for this attack! VolteMetalic 15:40, August 30, 2011 (UTC): Yes, i suggest this :) Hazza-the-Fox 05:26, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox - the only issue we need to consider is if a player simply hits force fire on the proper targets a second time to avoid targeting of the smoke clouds immediately as they are created- otherwise I say it's worth a try! VolteMetalic 11:49, August 31, 2011 (UTC): AI probabvly wouldnt, and players arent everywhere, but yes, they can target the real enemy. VolteMetalic 21:01, August 31, 2011 (UTC): That will actually requires small change of the sketch, featuring the smoke grenade launcher(s) :) Hazza-the-Fox 00:38, September 1, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox That won't be a problem- I designed it just in case I might put some smoke grenade launchers in anyway (if for no other reason than aesthetics)! VolteMetalic 07:56, September 1, 2011 (UTC): So its settled than! Now I must model it, but recently I started making T-34, T-44, T-54/55 (or just T-55) and derived SU and ZSU, and I dont have that often mood to finish them that it can take a while. But I will start, I promise ;) Hazza-the-Fox 12:29, September 1, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox No problems! Tesla Tank *Full Designation: NT-3200 Tesla Tank *Role: Heavy assault, linebreaker vehicle *Cost: 2000 *Strong against: All ground targets *Weak against: Aircraft, long-range defenses *Secondary Ability: Electromagnetic Pulse - Fires an EM pulse into designated area, where it creates a shockwave, disabling all vehicles and structures and slightly damaging them *Heroic Upgrade: Advanced Capacitors - Tesla bolts jump between multiple targets *Primary Weaponry: Two 6000-AMP Tesla coils *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 03:53, November 2, 2011 (UTC) So, the Tesla Tank functions similarly to the Red Alert 2 version- only it is faster, sturdier, and does vastly more damage- virtually shredding any infantry unit or vehicle it shoots at. In essense, it is a bigger, faster Tesla Trooper. Note that as a large vehicle, it does not enjoy the unusually secure position its smaller infantry counterpart enjoys; any weapons that are good against tanks will be no different against this tank- it merely takes more damage. The design is based on attempts by engineers to incorporate Tesla Reactors into conventional tanks- the superior output was negated by the greatly increased size and cost of fitting the rest of the components in; until the weapons themselves were replaced also by a purely Tesla-based system. As a result, this tank is capable of carrying a greater armor package at great speeds, and diverting its energy into its gun when it needs to attack- as a result, the vehicle cannot fire on the move. The tank is rumored to have an electro-magnetic weapon of some kind- whether this is capable of shorting out vehicles instead of structures, fires continuous EMP interference, or other function is unknown. Soviet Engineers have also considered attaching standard machineguns, or smokescreen launchers to the vehicle to enhance survivability. The question remains is precise appearance- most likely it will carry the same general shape my old version did (and for that matter, the RA2 version it was based on, with some touch ups only. I was thinking of attaching riot-grills to the sides of it, or possibly the Mastermind instead. Hazza-the-Fox 03:55, November 2, 2011 (UTC) Or for that matter, its weapon could be an EMP substitute for a smokescreen?!?! It would definitely make good use of something that fended off incoming fire while it closed the gap... VolteMetalic 10:26, November 2, 2011 (UTC): So it is dedicated anti-armor unit with better protection than Mauler, right? :) For the ability, the EMP sounds good. RA3 Tesla Tank has a EM field, every vehicle and structure around it is disabled. Here, I thinked about it for a while and what about using the EMP in different way than just shoot it? But send it as a wave? It is based on Transformer Blackout, who in life-action movie was able to fire EMP fields into the ground (not directly under himself, but to the direction where he wanted it). When the EMP hit the ground, it changed into a wave which was expanding in width but weakening with the distance. Blackout from Transformers Aniamted was able to project the EMP by stomping, creating a large shockwave which was able to knock out others, but also shud down a structures. Tesla Tank might use one way (the expanding way) or another (shockwave). The machine gun wont look very well there, and EMP as well because it mgiht be the secondary abiltiy... I think no secodndary is required, or maybe a small Tesla-coil weapon against infantry which is too close, but no secondary weapon is the best option by me. Hazza-the-Fox 13:48, November 2, 2011 (UTC)In most senses, yes! That is precisely the idea! Although its weapon can also instantly kill any infantry unit (possibly a small group at a time), it is intended to be an anti-armor unit designed for charging into heavy vehicles that are normally tough to take down, and blow them away at short-range (being short-ranged adds a distinct equalizer to its intensity- and also prevents the tank being added to a 'ball of death' formation with other vehicles. The EMP is a tricky one to figure out- and a shockwave of some form (or function) is definetely a good attack. There are only a few things to weigh in; 1- as the tank is short-ranged and has a gun that can destroy most targets in short order, the difference with a vehicle-jammer is that it would likely buy the tank some spare shots from the group it charged into- which would make a fairly neat feature. 2- A defensive function might overlap the Smokescreen possessed by the Maulers, being a little redundant too. Not that there aren't viable alternatives, possibly. 3- Obviously as the Tesla Trooper has an ability to maintain a constant EMP feed into an enemy structure, allowing the Tesla Tank to do the same would be a little redundant; 4- the Mastermind is also likely to get a shockwave attack, (a variation of psychic psi-blast/ or perhaps a psychic lockdown that prevents the MM from controlling units while active, but all enemies caught within the wave are frozen in place)- either way, the Tesla Tank's special would probably be best doing the opposite to what the Mastermind does- be that a damaging attack, or a freezing attack. Either one is perfectly practical for either unit- with the implications of the fact that the T-Tank is currently a damaging attack unit, while the M-Mind is a non-damaging special-attack unit, and whether they would mix-and-match abilities so both can harm and both can throw a special attack, or if the Tesla Tank will be doubly offensive, while the M-Mind will specialize even more in abstract attack and disruption. Obviously, because the Tesla Tank is fast and the Mastermind is slow, the Tesla Tank would warrant a short-range shockwave and the M-Mind a much larger one. Some things to consider. VolteMetalic 19:38, November 2, 2011 (UTC): So it is also short-ranged? Also sounds fine, good balance for its firepower. For the secondary, another option is targeted EM pulse, which after contacting witht he target changes into the shockwave and disable everything in the nearby vicinity. This might be not in opposition with Mastermind or Mauler. Hazza-the-Fox 10:10, November 3, 2011 (UTC)Most definitely! About the same short range as the original RA2 Tesla Tank. More good ideas for the shockwave you have. Another possibility is that the shockwave does substantial damage (nowhere near as much as the main Tesla guns), and shorts all enemy vehicles and structures for a brief period of time; but is a slight friendly-fire risk (friendlies take mild damage only) until the vehicle is upgraded or gains experience. Another split from the ball-of-death advantage- or a slight daring risk for sending in a group to emit a shockwave). I'm kinda warming to the Mastermind's mass-disruption field shutting down the minds of every living thing around itself so long as the pilot maintains concentration (it's pretty freaky too)! VolteMetalic 11:41, November 3, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, I had an idea that the shockwave can damage all non-living targets (frying the electronics, essentially damaging the whole thing), but only a little, while paralyzing them with the EMP. Mastermind still can have its abiltiy, it wont interefere with Tesla Tank. Hazza-the-Fox 00:53, November 4, 2011 (UTC)Sounds good! Another interesting (and equalizing) idea is perhaps it also damages any infantry who use electronic weapons? VolteMetalic 11:10, November 4, 2011 (UTC): While I agree with you, I think that for a coder it will be too much of "ant's work" :) It is possible, but will require a lot of coding, so I will just leave it to immobilizing vehicles and structures :) Also, it has higher range than normal Tesla coils (of the tank) Hazza-the-Fox 14:13, November 5, 2011 (UTC) Sounds Good! VolteMetalic 19:14, November 5, 2011 (UTC):So Tesla Tank is settled? :) Hazza-the-Fox 03:49, November 7, 2011 (UTC)I'd say yes it is! Aircraft MiG Fighter *Full Designation: MiG-39 Air Superiority Fighter *Role: Air superiority and skirmishing, airstrike *Cost: 1500 *Strong against: Aircraft, infantry, vehicles *Weak against: Anti-Aircraft *Secondary Ability: Return to Airbase - MiG flies back to Air Field with speed bonus *Heroic Upgrade: EMP Bombs - Gives the bombs ability to shut down vehciles and structures *Primary Weaponry: 20mm autocannon, anti-aircraft missiles *Secondary Weaponry: Anti-surface bombs Hazza-the-Fox 14:13, November 2, 2011 (UTC) The MiG Fighter; finding a good balance between giving the Soviets some fair and equalizing air coverage and fast-strike abilities, without mirroring the Allies and their greater dependency for airstrike tactics- and also weighing in the real-life dogfighting capabilities of a MiG aircraft. In short, it is a multi-role fighter jet just like the Allied Raptor, capable of strafing targets with machineguns and bombing vehicles, ships and bases. The only difference is that the dogfighting abiltiies have been increased (especially the range it can engage enemy targets from), but to balance, its range for dropping bombs is reduced- and the bombs do not guide directly into the targets but instead create splash damage; thus making it more geared for fighting and less for bombing runs, without making it overly impractical to do so if the player REALLY wanted to- ultimately making the heavy-assault tactic more viable, and the Allies more focused on hit-and-run. If possible to program, the MiG would be able to make tighter strafing turns than a Raptor, spending less time having to fly out before veering around for another strike- being that real MiGs are particularly acrobatic. The main trick in reducing the extensive use of MiGs is the differences in the airbases for either side. Both sides need a Radar structure prior to building a Hangar for their general air units; however, the Allies' fighter bays are a component of the Radar structure (Airforce HQ), while the Soviets are a component of their Hangar instead- giving the Allies a headstart in fighter production. Also a possible option is for the Allies to have 4 fighter bays per Radar, and the Soviets only 3-4 per Hangar (if necessary). The MiGs gain a heroic upgrade of dropping EMP bombs that short out whatever they land near for a short time- to help them play a complimentary role to other attack units (including the Kirov). VolteMetalic 19:38, November 2, 2011 (UTC): The acrobatic of MiG wont be a problem, they would be more maneuverable. But I am not sure about the dogfighting, when it has only autocannon (machien guns arent used now on jets), while Raptor has missiles. That doesnt seems much fair. For bombs, I agree with them, and for secondary, RA3 resolved it that Apollo and MiG Fighters and Vindicator Bomber has the secondary to "Return to Base". They will be returning to their airfield with speed bonus. Here it can work just as well, it is quite neutral and for balancing right. For the name... why MiG x78? That in no way follows the naming system. Normally it would be MiG-78X, but even MiGs dont use even numbers, so more like MiG-79x. And than its really high number. Hazza-the-Fox 10:03, November 3, 2011 (UTC) Excellent. I don't really mind if the fighters simply have AA missiles rather than cannon/bomb combo, but generally the idea is that both aircraft have comparable weapons; merely that the Raptor's bombing ability is superior, while the MiG's skirmishing abilty is superior. A "Return to Base" or a Generals-style "Patrol the Skies" option is something I had in mind (where the selected planes leave their runways and fly a broad path around the base, in a 'patrol mode', to intercept any enemy air or ground). As for the name- simply a placeholder really; as I haven't yet found out which MiG brand is the best rival to the Raptor. VolteMetalic 11:41, November 3, 2011 (UTC): What about that MiG will ahve all three weapons, autocannon, missiels and bombs? AA missiles, autocannon maybe agaisnt both, and bombs agaisnt ground. "Patrol the Skies" is redundant, as you can select it normally in the menu to make a patrols. "Return to Base" is probably the best option. Well, MiG was developing Mikoyan Project 1.44, from which evolved Sukhoi's T-50 PAK FA, which is counter against Raptor. Last number of MiG is 35, so maybe 37 or 39. Hazza-the-Fox 01:03, November 4, 2011 (UTC) All sounds good! A potentially complicated but nice balance would be if it had finite AA missiles as well as finite bombs (or they were both the same ammo- so either AA fights OR bombing runs uses up its payload) and must either rely on its autocannon to fight afterwards, or must otherwise return to base to re-arm (providing a reprieve for enemy units, and an opening to attack with after losing a few units). The MiG in patrol would automatically use its AA missiles on incoming aircraft, and its autocannon on ground targets- but can still be manually be told to drop its bomb on ground units. The redundancy of patrol is fine, then return to base is indeed good! I'll probably go with MiG 39 (should definitely imply the newest model with a clear lead of the skies)! VolteMetalic 11:10, November 4, 2011 (UTC): I am not sure now what do you mean by that. Hazza-the-Fox: That is, the fighter carries a 'payload'; and this could be exhausted by either attacking air, OR by dropping a bomb. Alternatively, it carries both a separate bomb payload, and an AA missile payload; it has finite AA missiles, and once it shoots them all, can only use its machinegun unless told to return to base to re-arm. That way, either attack OR defend consists of a single heavy ordinance that must be replenished- that way it helps keep the fighter out of action for a while, so it's not always on the defense. VolteMetalic 08:14, November 7, 2011 (UTC): You forgot to add yous signature :P I see... I am not certain it is possible to make it like this. In Shock Therapy we were trying to make an aircraft similar in abilities to Firehawk in CnC3, that you can switch the weapons only on the Airbase. Once it takes off, it cant be changed till he lands again. So far they didnt made it like this, so you can switch the weapons in the air when the aircraft is idle. If we will succeed to make this code, it might be used here for MiG too. But I think that he can use all of these at once, but when it will have empty bomb bay or missiles, it will fly back. But you caa command it to attack targets in the air (if bombs are gone) or on ground (if missiles are gone). Hazza-the-Fox 11:21, November 7, 2011 (UTC) (And you forgot to start a new line for your sig :P) I think that makes things a little trickier; Something to re-evaluate. (of course, theoretically, the strict idea that it would simply refuse to fire a machinegun in substitute of finite AA missiles to return to base does still play into a nice achiles heel for defense- but I guess its something to think about too (aside from possibility) VolteMetalic 13:26, November 7, 2011 (UTC): (So we are even :P) Yes, and I will research the option for "Toggle Armament" ability. Hazza-the-Fox 20:57, November 7, 2011 (UTC)Cheers! If it's possible, it would be straightforward in the sense that on patrol it automatically would use AA missiles and machineguns, while on bombing runs it uses bombs. I think the ideal ammo switch would be for exhaustion of ammo to toggle the machinegun. Of course, if it's not possible, then a slow ROF missile launcher that requires the dogfighting craft to veer away and make a second run would be awesome (obviously the MiG's would be a higher rate of fire, resulting in it making sharper turns and jumping back into the kill faster). VolteMetalic 22:08, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Moment. So it cant use an autocannon while in "bombing run" mode? Yes, this is not a problem to make, that the dogfights will last longer than just one run when all participants launch their missiels at once :D The autocannon will be firing all the time, but missiles will be fired only one (or two) at once on enemy aircraft. Hazza-the-Fox 01:19, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Not sure, depends what's possible. I think, if a person sends the MiG to attack a tank or structure, it would first drop its bomb on it and return to base- and any subsequent targeted attacks before it returns would have it strafe around with its cannon, if possible. I'd say that second point is a better idea. We should probably do that (can it randomly alternate between firing AA missiles and cannon fire?) VolteMetalic 08:40, November 8, 2011 (UTC): I think that it wont matter if MiG will spray the target with autocannon and than throw the bombs. Autocannon is its means of defense against aerial targets, and it doesnt deal that great damage on ground targets so still bombs will have their role. Yes, in theory it is. But for me using them both at once wont be a problem, but I guess it is possible to make. Hazza-the-Fox 12:05, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Good points. That is good to know; its nice to have these things possible. To be honest it's hard to say which combination would be the best- as ultimately the most balancing factor is that it does intense damage, but is limited to finite ammo and strict hit-and-run tactics, so it's not constantly buzzing around and ripping up everything in its path (same deal for the Raptor). VolteMetalic 18:35, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Moment, you were talking about autocannon of MiG and Raptor dont having infinite ammo storage? That can work out too just as well. Not a problem. It will simply have a bar for the autocannon, and a "dots" for the missiles (and bombs gor MiG). Hazza-the-Fox 01:17, November 9, 2011 (UTC) That would be even better! I say we try that... VolteMetalic 09:08, November 9, 2011 (UTC): So MiG is (at last) finally decided? :D Hazza-the-Fox 22:40, November 9, 2011 (UTC) I'd say yes! MYK Dropship *Full Designation: Mil-Yakolev-Kamov MYK-32 Dropship *Role: VTOL Mass-transport *Cost: 2000 *Strong against: N/A *Weak against: Anti-air weapons *Secondary Ability: Disembark Passenger - Max. 20 infantry, 10 heavy infantry/drones, 4 vehicles, 2 larger vehicles or 1 heavy vehicle *Heroic Upgrade: Weapon Upgrade - *Primary Weaponry: Four ,50 caliber machine guns *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 03:58, October 27, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox: Finally back in action! Took me a while to figure out the best function of this unit (a Carryall/airlifter that picks up a single vehicle with its claws, or basically a massive, flying amphibious transport, with a carraige/cargo bay- and decided the latter one is the best- simply put the capacity to lift only one unit won't help much, while placing a small squad of Maulers- or possibly a massive horde of conscripts- could be devastating! So far I can't think of any weapons that would really help it (although acting as a huge flying fortress bristling with guns could possibly work). Its actual capacity would be smaller than the RA2 hover-transports, but still larger than anything else by a huge margin. Any thoughts? VolteMetalic 08:35, October 27, 2011 (UTC): First of all, welcome! :) For the unit, "Yak", or better said "YaK", is callsign of another Russian aircraft manufacturer, Yakolev :) For the unit, I have nothing to against it. In RA3 Twinblade has the exact job, only that it can also fight. Imagine a Mi-24 Hind with two rotors and hook to transport tanks under itself :P But I am not sure, it can transport single vehicle, or group of infantry, not both at once? Hazza-the-Fox 10:47, October 27, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Hehe, that could be perfectly fine having a third aircraft manufacturer name (I mixed the Mil and Ka labels to imply some kind of gigantic collaborative project (plus on the concept art I was thinking of even adding a few Aeroflut badges to it)); For design I'm angling for mixing a few of the larger Kamov VTOL dual-rotor transports and the Halo together, with a few stranger twists. Function wise, something like the twinblade- only it carries an extremely large supply of units, making it an alternative to the Kirov Airships as something enemies would really try to keep away. I think for simplicity it should carry any combination of units the same way amphibious transports do- any combination so long as the units can fit in the space. The only difference is that the Dropship can't hold quite as many (for balance reasons- just enough so that it could drop enough units in an enemy base to be a worry- but not enough to be an obvious replacement for other transports). VolteMetalic 15:32, October 27, 2011 (UTC): Hmm... so in theory, it can transport 8 Conscripts, just as well as 8 Maulers? For the name, if it is a multi-corporation project, using the prefixices of all of them would be not fitting. MKY, or a conmbination of these like MYK. It would be something... unified, like in Russian "heavy cargo/transporting helicopter" or something. Hazza-the-Fox 03:15, October 28, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Something like perhaps 4-6 maulers/ 8-16 conscripts/1 Devastator or Nuke Truck. And good call for the name- MKY or MYK is definitely better. VolteMetalic 11:22, October 28, 2011 (UTC): Thats quite a lot of Maulers and Conscripts. And you dont have to write your name after putting "Signature". :) These "waves" do it already :D Hazza-the-Fox 14:10, October 28, 2011 (UTC) I see; on that note, I may need some help knowing the exact procedures to make duplicates of these unit entries (I just copied and pasted the existing ones- with not quite as much success; and of course, whether the signature comes at the start or not; On another note, I'll probably need to set up some in the infantry sections to talk over concept art details VolteMetalic 17:53, October 28, 2011 (UTC): What do you mean? Sure, go ahead :) Hazza-the-Fox 07:22, November 1, 2011 (UTC) Never Mind, got it working! VolteMetalic 11:40, November 1, 2011 (UTC): Than, what might be its name, when it is MYK product? Hazza-the-Fox 23:06, November 1, 2011 (UTC) Hmm, I guess MYK Dropship? VolteMetalic 00:09, November 2, 2011 (UTC): ... Yes, that is an option :) Also, i presume that it replaces Kamov, right? Hazza-the-Fox 03:12, November 2, 2011 (UTC) Yep! VolteMetalic 11:10, November 4, 2011 (UTC): And the weaponry? And how many it can actually carry? Hazza-the-Fox 03:52, November 7, 2011 (UTC) I think an initial form it should be unarmed; but could be upgraded to carry a suite of heavy guns (maybe large-ish caliber flak?) As for carrying capacity; not sure on the specifics; but it should be a lot less than an amphibious transport (say, half, or 3/5s); but several times larger than any other transport. And function-wise it is essentially identical to an amphibious transport, in that all infantry and vehicles can fit inside, and some take up more room than others). VolteMetalic 08:14, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Upgrade, that means as a normal upgrade? Like in ZH Capture Building? :P Well, we can agree on that Devastator, Nuke Truck and Grinder-Magnetron and Mastermind can be carried only one. V5... maybe also one, or two. Tesla Tank also two. Mauler and Flak Raider, MYK can take three at once. For infantry... 15? And Terror Drones are counted as infantry, or not being transported. What do you think of this? Hazza-the-Fox 11:24, November 7, 2011 (UTC) I'd agree- especially with the larger units- but the smaller ones I might increase an extra 25% (4 Maulers, 20 conscripts or 10 heavier infantry/terror drones). While the hover transport would carry probably two, three times that amount (it's a gigantic payload, but as the hover transport only exists for the sole purpose of ferrying ground forces across a small space of water separating enemy bases in a couple of maps- it might as well give its money's worth I say). VolteMetalic 13:26, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Ok, so like this.20 light infantry, 10 heavy infantry/terror drones, 4 light vehicles, 2 medium vehicles and 1 heavy vehicle. For hovercraft, I think that twice the MYK's capacity is maximum. 60 Conscripts or 12 Maulers sounds too hilarious for me :P It is already very high (even RA3 Paradox makes Soviet truck capable of carrying only 15 infantry (no Tesla Troopers), and it is the highest capacity I remember right now). Hazza-the-Fox 20:59, November 7, 2011 (UTC) Yep! Agreed- double capacity should be enough for Hovercraft (though keep in mind the two hovercraft are out of scale- and in real life are both as large as frigates)! VolteMetalic 22:08, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Sure thing :) Ok, so now to the weapons, what it might posses, after the upgrade, and how many? And, than what would be its heroic? Hazza-the-Fox 01:34, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Erm, I'm not sure actually! I think perhaps it starts off (no upgrade) with a few light machineguns (AA and anti-ground) to pepper any foes with. These upgrade at heroic to a nastier array of cannon, flak launchers, howitzers and large-caliber machineguns, becoming a flying fortress of sorts. An upgrade could alternateviely be some kind of 'ground clearer mines'- which it only uses upon making a descent. It shoots out many bombs at very short range at nearby enemies, causing huge splash (obviously, with no enemies around, no bombs would fire- to avoid a rather annoying problem of landing in your own base). These bombs have nothing on those the MiG uses- let alone what the Kirov drops! But they can tenderize the landing zone, along with the welcoming party! VolteMetalic 08:40, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Moment, so how does it gain the array of weapons? And machine guns/miniguns sounds good, but the cannon, flak launchers and howitzers are just too large for it :D Yes, I fully understand. It is a support for deploying units, spraying enemies around, confsing them while the welcoming party deplyos and start the party! XD Hazza-the-Fox 12:11, November 8, 2011 (UTC) Ok, I think I got it sorted out nicely. It DOES start off armed- but these guns are wimpy light machineguns that can attack multiple targets (only greatly effective from the air). At Heroic level, it gains a few meaner guns (if you reckon cannon/artillery is too extreme, I'd probably opt for mid-sized heavy-ish rapid-firing guns). And exactly! Celebrations start with a few dazzling pyrotechnics! (and stunning enemies makes the landing even more effective)! VolteMetalic 18:35, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Ok, so the light machine guns at the start, and on heroic heavy or a small flak cannons. Yes, that can work out, just need to sort out how many fireport will be there, and how many heroic weapons ratio will be (like in total 6, so 4 heavy MGs and 2 flaks). And as purchaseable upgrade it will ahve that "flak barrage" when landing, yes? XDDD Yes, exactly my thought! Hazza-the-Fox 01:14, November 9, 2011 (UTC) YES! Exactly what I was thinking, every point! So yes, it starts with a few light machineguns (about 4) that do reasonable damage, to the point where having this aircraft around might be a problem for enemies or strong enough to focus-fire and win 1-on-1 most units (mostly because this vehicle has a lot of armor)- but is not a Kirov-scale emergency by any means- their main strength is that they can fire on 4 enemies at once). At Heroic, it gets autocannon and some small flak guns, and it becomes something a lot more menacing, requiring quite a bit of firepower to bring down and will probably tear up many light targets (and possibly take out a heavy unit by force-firing). And yes- the 'landing barriage' (flak, missiles or cluster-bombs- either will do) is a purchasable upgrade. VolteMetalic 09:08, November 9, 2011 (UTC): Ok, so it will have 4 machine guns, and when Heroic 2 autocannons and 2 flak cannons, or 4 autocannons and 2 flak cannons? You may add this upgrade for "flak barrage" to the Upgrade section box. Hazza-the-Fox 22:38, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Tough call actually; will have to think about that; Ships Giant Squid *Full Desigantion: Mind-Controlled Genetically-Enhanced Mega-Architeuthis *Role: Stealth anti-ship 'agent' *Cost: 1500 *Strong against: Anything in the water *Weak against: Being spottted before it attacks, dolphins *Secondary Ability: Ink Escape - Automatically flees to the shipyard, spraying ink away. Making squid invincible, slows down enemy ships *Heroic Upgrade: N/A *Primary Weaponry: Massive tentacles with serrated hooks *Secondary Weaponry: Ink glands Hazza-the-Fox 01:45, November 8, 2011 (UTC)The Giant Squid (in this case, a Giant-Giant-Squid as large as a small frigate- as opposed to a rhinoceros like real Giant Squid are), are genetically enhanced and mind-controlled to attack enemy ships. They are extremely fast stealth attackers, who act like a terror drone in the water; they speed under the waves, leap out at an enemy ship, wrap around it and start ripping it apart. It is far deadlier than the RA2 counterpart- aside from moving and ripping ships faster, it is now deadly against organic units; lunging upon any dolphins and divers, and simply eating them instantly. Attacking a squid wrapped around the ship will damage both- except by dolphins and divers, whose attack forces the squid to release its target, and go after them instead. A squad of dolphins can kill the squid, and dart evasively to attack- but the squid is faster and will be able to hunt them one by one. Its special function is to escape- it sprays a cloud of ink (causing dolphins to flee, and leaving the squid invulnerable for a few seconds); but the squid is uncontrollable for another 20 seconds, its only act is to try to return to the shipyard and stay there. The ink also slows ships, and prevents enemy detector ships from spotting underwater targets. VolteMetalic 08:40, November 8, 2011 (UTC): I see, simply a highly genetically enlarged and mind-controled squid :) With greatest weakness being dolphins. Ink is great idea! But disabling synsory units sounds, with all the rest of abilities, little too much and unrealistic, but for slowing down ships I am definitly for it. And, it gains experiences, or not? Hazza-the-Fox 12:16, November 8, 2011 (UTC)Yep- and in this case, the dolphins have their work cut out for them too- they are simply the best equipped to handle these beasts, and mostly owe it to superior numbers! No probs- slowing ships and giving a temporary immunity should be the sum of all beneficial effects (at the expense of making attack impossible for the inking squid too). The idea came surprisingly fast- simply asking myself "what would a squid possibly deploy, in what would most likely be an area-effect attack?". On top of the idea, the fact that Squids only do it in fright and escape jumped in too (plus it helps break up the attacks as strictly enhancory, but more double-edged and tactical). As for experience- no idea actually... tough call. VolteMetalic 18:35, November 8, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, it reminds me Hachibi in Naruto, or Killer B, he had the ability to split an ink to cover his movements :) Just will need to find out if it is possible for Squid to move to the closest shipyard. I think that even it can kill and destroy, the heroic might not be included. As the only (or one of the few) exceptions in this rule :) And, at the bottom of the page, there is one article we will need to discuss, thought it isnt that important like this :) Hazza-the-Fox 01:16, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Maybe that's what reminded me? Naruto! I think if the code won't let the squid trace its way back (revert to some kind of AI control temporarily), we could leave it stunned, teleport it back to the shipyard, or some other improvisation... I agree- it would be really hard to think of what a 'promoted' squid would be- or what it would suddenly get.. VolteMetalic 09:08, November 9, 2011 (UTC): So no Heroic. I will ask for the option for non-flying units to return nearest shiyard. Hazza-the-Fox 22:40, November 9, 2011 (UTC) I'd say so. And there are possible cheats- either copying AI code (that would target your shipyard already), or imply that you force-ordered it to return to the shipyard (even though you actually didn't)? Structures Defenses Upgrades Discussions Gameplay VolteMetalic 07:00, August 22, 2011 (UTC): Welcome on the board :) Hazza-the-Fox 10:13, August 23, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Thanks! Well, I think to start this off I suppose we could discuss how to organize these pages. VolteMetalic 10:33, August 23, 2011 (UTC): Redirected to Gameply Discussion. Hazza-the-Fox 11:44, August 23, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Hmmm, not sure my last post is now, so what do you think of thse ideas? VolteMetalic 11:47, August 23, 2011 (UTC): It is in the other topic :D This is not the only one. Click on top of the page on "Red Alert: Zero", and once you are ther you will see the other topics :) Hazza-the-Fox 08:05, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Ok- so an overview of how the Soviets operate; Technology-wise, the Soviets use Tesla (and its sub-field, magnetism), Nuclear technology, Flak Technology and Psi Technology, along with advanced articulated mechanics. It is somewhat an evolution of the Red Alert 2 dychotomy that Allies were speedy, evasive but light-weight faction against the Big slow strong Soviets. Instead, with both sides having their share of hit-and-run, long-range, speedy, heavy, sneaky, etc units, the emphasis is that while the Allies are more Glass Cannon concentrated fire combat and forming strong battle lines, Soviets are more charge and disrupt combat, specifically geared to smash battlelines and break the enemy out of formation. Their units are designed to be used to absorb enemy fire either through sheer numbers or sheer sturdiness, distraction tactics, and forcing their way through heavily defended points. The Allied side is still the 'faster, swifter' side- but this difference is not as vast or apparent as before. Infantry vary from extremely cheap, weak, expendable cannon fodder (Conscripts, Pariahs) to expensive walking tanks (Tesla Troopers). With the intention of using one category to cover the other (works both ways- A single Tesla Trooper could absorb fire for a whole platoon of Conscripts). Life is cheap when Yuri is Dictator- unless the persons are professionals and worth the extra investment ;) Vehicles differentiate from Allied versions in various ways; Some trade accuracy for area-of-effect destruction, some trade damage for rate of fire (allowing a vehicle to engage larger groups of units). Generally, Soviet vehicles are much more expensive than their Allied Counterparts. Air Force- unlike Red Alert 2, the Soviets get a full compliment of aircraft- but their distinctiveness remains; Allied aircraft are generally better at speedy bombing runs than Soviet aircraft, and also cheaper and more easily accessible (also made possible by the Allied fighter bays (groups of 4) being part of their Radar structure, rather than part of the later Hangar structure (Soviet version only having 2-3 fighter bays). Their aircraft, however, are far better in general combat, and usually more versatile in other respects. The reason for this is to essentially reduce the Soviets ability to rely on fast bombing aircraft despite their already good blitzkrieg arsenal- but not deny it. It serves mainly to equalize the Soviets against the still-faster general Allied arsenal. The Navy is a simpler dychotomy; the contrast is that while Allied ships are more specialized for a specific function, most Soviet naval units are weaker, but more versatile (jack-of-all-trades units), with fewer- but very powerful- specializing units (Typhoon Attack Sub). Whilst an Allied player would need to built two ships to get a coastal bombardment + AA screen, Soviets need only build one ship that does both. I'll talk about structures in another topic ;) Non-buildable Units VolteMetalic 22:14, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Now I remembered that there we dont has a list of units which are ingame but are not buildable (like in RA2 Boris' MiG Bombers or cargo planes) Ok, so we will need a default cargo plane for both sides, probably a heavy bombers (something like B-52 and Tu-95 Bear), what else? Oh, yes, Allied drones of Aircraft Carrier. Hazza-the-Fox 01:06, November 9, 2011 (UTC)Ah yes, the drones! I suppose those will be mentioned as an aspect of the Carrier (Which I'll get around to- and if you were wondering, the drone's kills are credited to the carrier, as the remote pilots are on-board the ship). VolteMetalic 09:00, November 9, 2011 (UTC): I am aware of it, RA3 Allied Aircraft Carrier had the same thing :) Ok, so so far what Soviets might have as non-buidable units. *Cargo plane (probably something Il-36 Candid) *Bomber (something like Tu-95 Bear, or when it is in the time of our modern, Tu-160 Blackjack) Probably anothe unit might be "light bomber", which carries smaller bombs, or for more precision strikes. Otherwise, no ideas. maybe in campaing something experimental and of the Black Guard, an elite (and best) military unit guarding kremlin and Premier (in this case, Yuri). Or Black Guard variants of some units (Conscript, Mauler, Tesla Tank, Hind, Terminator?)